Do not meddle with one’s own intense faiths and beliefs

 

If you appreciate the background for this discussion you will understand what I said.

I am not insisting that Jathakams should be compared or marriages stopped on that basis..

I am basically not against even different sects of brahmins joining together in marriage.. And for that matter I do not consider even inte-racial or inter-caste marriages as wrong.

My remark was made in a discussion where they were saying that Rama and Sita or Vishnu and Lakshmi or Uma and Shankara or Ganga and Shiva did not compare horoscopes and married.. So we should not.. They were just ridiculing the idea of astrology totally.

If the parents and those who are close agree that there is no need to compare horoscope, there is no issue.

Horoscope comparison does not arise from our Vedic of smartha traditions.. 

That I have made very clear.

But if the persons closely connected and whose lives are at stake feel that there should be such match... others have no right to ridicule such idea. That is all

Ultimately in marriages, if there is some haggling over horoscope match and marriage happens in spite of that, and something unwanted happens, the parties who believed in horoscope would snatch this opportunity of harass the hapless victims.. Especially the parents or siblings on both sides can be the culprits.. And life can become a prolonged misery..

I just said. Do not meddle with one’s own intense faiths and beliefs..

That is not any invitation to become superstitious.

And just because the vedic jyothisham has nothing to do with marriage match we cannot say that the treatises by later authors and sages (many of them are revered like gods themselves) regarding marriage match are all not valid. There are solid texts especially in the Kerala Jyothisha tradition which prescribe the marriage criteria.. That may not be found in the Vedic period

But then even many prayers and stotram like Vishnu Sahasranama or Lalitha Sahasranamam are not parts of Vedas.. Vishnu sahasranama is at least a part of itihasa.. but lalitha sahasranamam and many other prayers and stotras are part of not so important puranams.. That does not belittle the importance of such stotrams.. Agamas are not parts of Vedas.. Tantras too are not part of Vedas.. Our pooja rituals and many other activities are governed not only by Vedas but many other derivative texts.. At best the only condition would be that the ideas contained in the later rituals should not be opposed to the ideas of Vedas. It was simply that such practices were not there in Vedic times. They came into vogue just four or five centuries ago..

Hinduism and Brahminism are wide-spectrum treatises.. There can be diametrically opposite views at the far ends of the spectrum. And no one can say for sure what the right way is. Or right path..

The best way for the Individual is to follow the path which appears for him safe.. If he has solid company in that path, he is safer.

 

Kanyakaa Dhaanam

Kanyakaa Dhaanam

We do not gift away our daughters simply like that. No father or brother takes leave of or sends away his daughter or sister with happiness. The Pathos of the Fourth Act of Shakuntalam where Sage Kanva sheds tears of blood while sending Shakuntala to her husband’s place. You have to read it only with a feel that you have your heart turned with a wrench... The Laja Homam just after the marriage where the brides brother fills her hands with puffed paddy to be offered to Agni.. As a prayer of longevity for the bridegroom... I shall try to reproduce the mantras below... It tells a ll.

Laja Homa

After the Kanya-dan, the young bride may feel that both she and her brothers have been born in the same house and both have equal rights for affection and affluence but she is going to another family. To reassure her that she need not feel such separation the brothers give to their sister the Laja (parched rice) for offering in the fire. The idea symbolically is that just as we transplants paddy plants from their original germinating ground to another field to facilitate proper growth and yield of crop, the girls have to be married off to another family just to ensure widespread growth. It is clear from this that the girls cannot remain in their father’s house forever.

By filling the stretched palms of their sister to the full, with Lajas the brothers assure her that whenever she will go from her father’s house to her husband’s house, the brothers will be always there to provide her with whatever she wants. It is the practice in affectionate families that whenever a sister visits she will never go empty handed to her own house. In addition, we can witness this this implied gesture even if the brother is ninety years old and the sister is eighty.

It is with such reassured and happy mind that the bride offers three oblations of the Lajas-parched rice in the fire through her husband and recites the following three

mantras ; —

अर्यम्णं देवं कन्या अग्नियक्षत सनो देवः प्रेतो मुञ्चतु मा पतेः॥

ॐ इयं नार्युपब्रूते लाजानवपन्तिका आयुष्मानस्तु मे पतिरेधन्ता ज्ञातयो मम।

ॐ इमान् लाजानावपाम्यग्नौ अमृद्धिकरणम् तव मम तुभ्यं च संवननं तदग्निरनुमन्यतामियत्।

aryamṇaṁ devaṁ kanyā agniyakṣata sano devaḥ preto muñcatu mā pateeḥ||

om iyaṁ nāryupabrūte lājānavapantikā āyuṣmānastu me patiredhantā jñātayo mama|

om imān lājānāvapāmyagnau amṛddhikaraṇam tava mama tubhyaṁ ca saṁvananaṁ tadagniranumanyatāmiyat|

The first mantra signifies that she is propitiating god Aryma and is bidding adieus to her parents and brothers and with mixed feeling going away from her father’s house to her husband’s house, God Aryma may not ever separate her from her husband

A very lofty idea is enshrined in this mantra-the bride never would entertain even in the remotest corner of her mind the idea of separation from her husband. That is why in Hindu marriage even the idea of divorce is entirely missing. In the second mantra, she seeks the benedictions of her brothers and relatives for the long life of her husband and in turn wishes them all-round prosperity.

In the third mantra addressing her husband she says, “My Lord and husband, by offering the oblations of Lajas in the fire I pray to God that our mutual love should always remain strong and firm There is. a deep significance in the act of the bride in not offering the Lajas herself to the Agni, even though given by her brothers, but she hands it over to the husband to offer the same to the fire. If the wife forms the kernel of the rice, the husband is the outer protective shell, which also carries in its tip the cells for germination, and the kernel separated from the shell cannot grow further, the wife without the presence of the husband has no significance. The vice versa is equally important. Shiva and Shakti cannot remain without the presence of one another. The bride in good faith is requesting the Gods with offer of the puffed rice that her life with her husband should ever be without separation.

In our society, just because the girl goes to the husband’s house she does not lose her hold in the life and love of her parents, brothers and sisters.. No Shubhakaryam or even negative occurrences can and will happen in the household of a brother without the presence of the sister and vice versa. Nothing ever goes on without the presence of Athai and Mama. The son born of the daughter has to pay oblations to the pitrus of three generation of maternal grandparents... on every Amavasya. And in life, can the affection be any less when a ninety year old brother and his eighty eight year sister meet.. Even at that age the brother will be afraid of the sister.

In Kerala apart from Palakkad Iyers who simply follow the Smartha rites of Tamil Iyers, the Nambuthiris, who are the nearest to Indigenous Brahmins of Kerala ( though the traditions is that Parasurama brought them from Andhra) and Pottis, Imbradiris, Bhats, etc who have become a part of Kerala but who have come from Karnataka, all have this Kanyakaadaanam.. Even the Nairs, Thiyyas or Ezhuvas, who form the majority Hindu sections in Kerala, have a ritual where the father of the Bride, holds the hand of the girl and leads her to the spot of marriage(dais) and hands over that hand to the bridegroom and the parents and the sisters of the groom also form part of the ceremony.. And this Kanyakadhanam is not restricted to Tamil Brahmin culture.. The famous statement of Janaka “ Iyam seetha mama suthaa sahadharmacharee thave, prateecha chainaam bhadram te paanim grihneeshwa paaninaa.....” the father giving the hand of the daughter to the bridegroom is an iconic act, of National Import..

Socially, the father handing over the hand of the daughter to the groom is a firm declaration on the fidelity and sacredness of the relations between the father and the mother of the bride first. And vindication of the institution of marriage as such.. Most of the human beings take pride in the identification of the paternal pedigree. As one cans easily identify the mother... and since there were no DNA tests in those days, this ritual was a moment of bliss for the father and the mother of the daughter and the boy. In addition, in Vedic marriages, the presiding preceptors would announce the names of even twenty-one generations of the fathers of the boy and girl at least three times. Nowadays they announce only the names of father, paternal grandfather and the paternal great-grandfather of the groom and the bride.

A marriage wish from Atharvavedam

A marriage wish from Atharvavedam

इहेवामिन्द्र सं नुत चक्रवाकेव दम्पती। प्रजयर्नौ स्वस्तकौ विश्वमायुर्व्यश्नुताम्।

It is a mantram kandam 14 ch 2 mantram 64 of Atharvana Veda,

Meaning

The prayer is addressed to Indra.. The newly married couple are presented before Indra.. And it is prayed

Lord Indra... Please join together this married couple for ever in deep bond of affection as if they are a pair of Chakravaka birds.

May they live for a very long period, being blessed with children and grandchildren, may they enjoy robust health and great position is life for ever, and may they have a long long period of marital bliss of togetherness..

(Chakravaka birds are famed to be faithful to their mates..They never change partner. They would prefer to die rather than choosing another partner if one partner departs)

first line

इन्द्र Indra

इह एव here itself

इमौ दम्पती this couple

चक्रवाकेव like chakravaka birds

संनुत bring together

(Indra imau dampathee chkravaka iva sam nuta )

indra bless this couple to be as happy together as a chakravaka couple.

Second line

इमौ these two

प्रजयनौ having lot of children

स्वस्तकौ living with health and peace

विश्वं huge, long

आयुः life

व्यश्नुताम् may spend

The couple may live a long life with lot of children health and peace.

( Imau prjanayau svastakau vishvam AayuH vyashnutaam)

Economics and Sociology of marriage, especially Iyer marriage

Thousands of words have been spent on the social and other issues which mar or block he chances of boys faring well in the marriage market.. A lot has been said about horoscopes. . I don't know to what result..

I understand that the brahmin psyche.. especially the migrant brahmin psyche that took the present shape of excessive cautiousness is a major factor behind the problems..

We will write well, articulately, quote extensively from shastras, invoke deities from Shiva to Saibaba.. but most of that exercise is performed by a peripheral and unsure mind..

It is true that most human beings are unsure about themselves and the external show of confidence is usually a facade.. It is more so among we pattars..

First we are basically timid or at least would prefer to walk away from friction, even if that would cause some mild to serious disadvantage to us. ..

Second, we were never that affluent but were adepts in comparison..and our aim in life always has been to show off.. trying to prove that each one is better in some way than all others.

.

This is an impossibility, which we can never come to terms with..

So the female or rather her parents, cannot think of a person who is financially less sound marrying her.. The present day crisis is exacerbated by the fact that while people flush with IT cash think too much of themselves, the lesser endowed are sliding into a realm of indecision and even depression.. and the society supports this.. Instead of comparing jathakams and trying vociferous quotes from scripture.. both relevant and mostly irrelevant, the community will fare better if some genuine soul search is made..

I trust that a few decisive and right actions would be better than millions of posts in Social media, or discussions during feasts and banquets..

Brahmins have done it earlier.. Even in the most conservative background.

One example is the codification of Pithru Karyams.. effectively done by Vaidyanatha Deekshita.. Many cumbersome and practically inoperable provisions in our acharams were done away with.. and ever our spiritual gurus readily agreed to such things..

There were many such reformers.. It is time we started in those lines...

It is heartening to note that and we are blessed that, very young and eminently knowledgeable gurus have been consecrated in Kanchi and Sringeri.. They can guide us..

But the kind gurus will not come and tell us.. we have to submit proposal s before them..

And that should be the real tribute the Pontiffs of Kanchi and Sringeri rather than posting cut and paste eulogies in facebook.. or conducting eating sprees in the name of religion..

the trouble starts when mothers or mother in laws or fathers or father in laws who are worn out or tormented by health and mobility problems are persuaded or even forced to do chores.. and the youngsters for whatever reason they may put forth, simply use threats and abuses and shower their frustrations on the elderly people,, simply forgetting in their own selfishness that the old people have already lived their lives and they require some peace to be their own selves even though those selves are clumsy..

I am not persuded much by activist and self-justificatory slogans..

Children, as a matter of rule, never hesitate to apply emotional highjack on the hapless parents.. either as children or youth..

THE WRITING IS CLEAR ON THE WALLS..

anyone is free to make pious proclamations..

But I reserve my right to express my views on the basis of what I have seen and felt during my long life..

sub sects in marriage

My two cents on too much dependance on strictly following sub-sects, sects etc in marraiges, with special reference to my species, the Iyers or south Indian brahmins. With change of some words and phrases these ideas could apply in a universal canvas too....

The degree of conservatism varies.. conservatism can be based on Inertia or tendency to just carry on with the pattern existing for years.

Conservatism can be based on expediency.. the sects somehow termed superior over the ages would love to maintain that soap bubble because the Vadama or whatever superior tag, though assumed would give them some advantage or sort of compensation for inadequacies on other counts..

Even when the general pattern is universally accepted, some sects who are generally seen as lower down in the scale, make a lot of noises and try to bring in authorities and endorsement to have them declared as superior..

All these tendencies work in a very subtle manner these days, quite against the noisy scenes created by middle aged females and paattees or old thathas..

But most of the Iyers are conservative even when they are covered by tweed coats or denim skirt, and brag of some residence in some part of USA or England or Australia or even Namibia..

And Iyers will not like what I say below, and I am not a social revolutionary, but where exactly is the law that brahmins should marry brahmins alone?

If you are opposing conservatism sincerely, how can you maintain the stand that there should be marriage within the caste alone.? Alternately if there can be a stand that region, subsect, language etc should be considered, that alone cannot be called as conservatism

..

Personally, I would prefer to have and if necessary modify my own rules for marriage within my own circle of relatives and influence, and would attempt to follow a family pattern, (because ultimately only the close family counts.. and the messiahs in the Facebook would not be seen anywhere when the chips are down) and would never try to criticize or even air views in social media.. It is absolutely meaningless to called certain acts alone as conservatism

How marriages were arranged in those days.. a study from Valmiki

How marriages were arranged in those days.. a study from Valmiki

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We know Rama and Laksmana visited the capital of Videha.. Mithila where king Janaka was keeping the bow of Shiva..

and it was a famous wager that Janakas beautiful daughter Sita would be given in marriage only to the person who performed the superhuman task of tying the string to that bow..

It was already a fact that neither humans, gods or demons were ever able to even just lift the bow.

Sage Visvamatra, who had taken the boys to Mithila just asked Janaka to show the bow to the boys..

First, when the bow is brought in Vishvamitra just tells Rama to have a look at the bow..

Rama takes further permission from Visvamitra to touch and handle the bow..

and after being permitted, he lifts the bow with ease and when he bends the bow to tie the string, the bow just breaks in the middle..

Janaka is overjoyed and he is eager to give Sita in marriage to Rama..

But things cannot be done in such a hurry..

He discusses the matter first with his own Purohita, Sage Satananda,

and both seek the direction of Visvamitra and beseech the Sages permission to send missives to Dasharatha with the news..

Here what Janaka stresses in his message to Dasharatha is that he is sending messengers after being permitted by Visvamitra

and that the boys were under the safe tutelage of the Sage..

The ministers of Janaka reach Ayodhya and deliver the message to Dasaratha..

The messengers just wait for the reply..

Dasharatha, does not decide anything by himself..

He sits in consultation with his purohita Sage Vasishta..

Only after getting proper directions from Vasishta, Dasharatha decides to travel to Ayodhya..

And even before Dasharatha started the Priest Vasishta and the ministers and Sages Vamadeva, Jaabaaali, Kashyapa, Markandeya (the ever sweet sixteen sage) and Katyayana, travelled ahead of him.

While matters are thus proceeding in Dasharathas side,

Janaka also is not prepared to take decisions all by himself..He first discusses about the proceedings with his priest Satananada..

Then he feels that he should decide anything only after discussion with his younger brother, Kushsadwaja..

So Janaka sends people to bring his brother, and it is only after having a thorough discussion with his brother, a meeting with Dasharatha and his ministers is arranged to discuss the alliance..

Even during the marriage negotiation, Janaka gives an equally important place to his younger brother.. during the talks..

It must be noted that at that time only the alliance for Sita was being discussed..

Later on, Janakas daughter Urmila was suggested for Lakshmana, and Kushadvajas daughters Mandavi and Shrutakeerthi were betrothed to Bharatha and Shatrughna..

And it is the preceptors, Satananda, Vasishta, and more impotantly Vishvamrita who lead the negotiations..

And when it came to the marriage function, it was Janaka who presided over the marriage of all the four daughters.. there was hardly any discrimination about Janakas daughters and Kushadvajas daughters..

This was how families worked in India..

Marriages were between families.. and all friends, well wishers and elders had their role to play.. and marriges could be solemnized only with the consent of all the preceptors..

Of course, perceptions about this can vary keeping the present milieau of human transactions at present..

But when I read about such proceedings in Valmiki Ramayanam, the sense of commitment that people of thoses days kept among themselves was touching the heart.

Now we rarely find such warmth..

Those days Hindu or Indian marriages were not just between a man and a woman..

It was between a family and a family, a state and a state..

And the honour or each constituent was at stake..

quotes from sages on widow remarriage..

I would like to give certain quotes from some sages.. for your reading about widow marriage... 

पराशरः -- नष्टेमृतेप्रव्रजिते क्लीबे च पतिते पतौ पञ्चापत्सुचनारीणां पतिरन्यो विधीयते।

अत्रिः-- नष्टे सन्यासमापन्ने व्याधिग्रस्ते च भर्तरि पुनः स्त्रीणं विवाहः स्यात् कलावपि न सम्शयः।

वैशंपायनः-- पुरुषाणामिवस्त्रीणां विवाहाः बहवो मताः। भर्तृनाशे पुनः स्त्रीणां पुंसां पत्नीलये यथा॥

जाबालि -- ब्राह्मणाः क्षत्रियाः वैश्याः शूद्राः स्वकुलयोषिताम् पुनर्विवाहम् कुर्वीरन् अन्यथा पापसम्भवः।

वसिष्टः-- भर्तृसंबन्ध शून्यानां भर्तृनाशे तु योषिताम्। पुनर्विवाहं कुर्वीत पापं नैव मनागपि।

याज्ञवल्क्यः-- भर्तृनाशे तु माङ्गल्यम् प्राप्तुमर्हति योषितः॥

parāśaraḥ -- naṣṭemṛtepravrajite klībe ca patite patau pañcāpatsucanārīṇāṁ patiranyo vidhīyate|

atriḥ-- naṣṭe sanyāsamāpanne vyādhigraste ca bhartari punaḥ strīṇaṁ vivahaḥ syāt kalāvapi na samśayaḥ|

vaiśaṁpāyanaḥ-- puruṣāṇāmivastrīṇāṁ vivāhaāḥ bahavo matāḥ| bhartṛnāśe punaḥ strīṇāṁ puṁsāṁ patnīlayae yathā||

jābāli -- brāhmaṇāḥ kṣatriyāḥ vaiśyāḥ śūdrāḥ svakulayoṣitām punarvivāham kurvīran anyathā pāpasambhavaḥ|

vasiṣṭaḥ--| bhartṛsaṁbandha śūnyānāṁ bhartṛnāśe tu yoṣitām| punarvivāhaṁ kurvīta pāpaṁ naiva manāgapi|

yājñavalkyaḥ--| bhartṛnāśe tu māṅgalyam prāptumarhati yoṣitaḥ||

Parashara    When the husband is absconding, dead,  has become a sannyasi,  has fallen from his social status,  has become eunuch.. in these five  unfortunate circumstances  it is prescribed that a lady can choose another husband.

Atri    When the husband is  lost or absconding,  when he has become a sannyasin,  when he is terminally ill  the  ladies can  marry again in this Kaliyuga

Vaishampayana..  Just like men, for ladies also  many marriages are prescribed.. when  death or destruction of the husband occurs. 

Jaabaali   Braahmanas, Kshatriyas, Vaishyas and Shudras should  all  ensure that the ladies of their clans are safely remarried, ( when exigencies arise) otherwise they would be exposed to sins 

Vasishta.. When  the husband has deserted a lady, or  the husband is destroyed or dead,   then remarrige can be done.. There is no  element of sin involved here.

YajnavalkyaH    When the husband is lost or dead,   the ladies deserve  remarriage.

invocation to Swayamvara Parvathi

the three invocatory slokas ..slokas recited at the start of the chanting session of Svayamavarparvathimantram

Someone asked me to translate the Svayamvaraparvathi mantram itself,.. But that is not right.. It is a mantram handed over by some guru to a disciple through oral traditions and the meaning or the mantram itself cannot be discussed..

Suffice to say that the mantram is invoked by young men and women for being blessed with a nice spouse and a long married life..

The three invocatory slokas and their meanings are discussed below

बालार्कायुत सुप्रभाम् करतले लोलम्बमालाकुलाम्।

मालाम् सन्दधतीम् मनोहरतनुम् मन्दस्मितोद्यन्मुखाम्॥

मन्दम् मन्दम् उपेयुषीम् वरयितुम् शम्भुम् जगन्मोहिनीम्।

वन्दे देवमुनीन्द्रवन्दितपदाम् इष्टार्थदाम् पार्वतीम्॥

bālārkāyuta suprabhām karatale lolambamālākulām|

mālām sandadhatīm manoharatanum mandasmitodyanmukhām||

mandam mandam upeyuṣīm varayitum śambhum jaganmohinīm|

vande devamunīndravanditapadām iṣṭārthadām pārvatīm||

I pay respects and humbly pray to Parvathi the uma

who is shining brightly with the colour of ten thousand young rising suns

who is holding a long flowing garland in her hands which are trembling(maybe due to the bashfulness natural to a young girl proceeding towards her lover Shambu)

who is having an attractive form which can entice one and all

whose attractive face is further brightening up with a subtle smile

who is just moving forward with halting steps towards her lord with a mind determined on wooing Lord Shambu as her husband

who is keeping the entire universe under the spell of her illusory powers of maaya

who is worshipped and waited upon by all the gods and sages and their leaders who serve at her feet for ever

and who is pleased to grand us all our fond desires..

हेमाभाम् अतिवागतीत गुणशीलानल्पशिल्पाकृतिम्।

प्रेमारोहमनोहराम् करलसत् कल्याण दामाञ्चिताम्॥

श्यामामीश्वरमुद्यताम् वरयितुम् त्रैलोक्य सम्मोहिनीम्।

कामोपासनकल्पवल्लिमनिशम् वन्दे पराम् देवताम्॥

hemābhām ativāgatīta guṇaśīlānalpaśilpākṛtim|

premārohamanoharām karalasat kalyāṇa dāmāñcitām||

śyāmāmīśvaramudyatām varayitum trailokya sammohinīm|

kāmopāsanakalpavallimaniśam vande parām devatām||

I offer worship to that supreme Goddess Paradevataa

who is shining very brightly in golden colour

whose benevolence and virtues are beyong description by words

who is manifesting herself like a Shilpa or scupture without any blemish or flaw

who has become all the more attractive and pretty because her mind is overflowing with love for her suitor..Shambhu the Shankara

who is shining forth holding an auspicious string of flowers (varanamaalyam) in her hands

who is dark in body colour (shyaamaa)

who is just moving ahead in the direction of that Easvara the supreme god with the exciting desire to woo Him as her husband

who is capable of holding the entire world in a trance of delusion with her will and grace

who is ever like a wish yielding creeper (Kalpavalli) for those who are worshipping her for fulfilment of their love for ( a life partner)

करधृतवरमालारक्तसर्वाङ्गभूषा

निखिलनयनचेतोहारि सौभाग्यरूपा॥

भवतु भवदभीष्टप्राप्तये शैलकन्या

पुरुषयुवतिवश्याकृष्टि नित्यप्रगल्भा॥

karadhṛtavaramālāraktasarvāṅgabhūṣā

nikhilanayanacetohāri saubhāgyarūpā||

bhavatu bhavadabhīṣṭaprāptaye śailakanyā

puruṣayuvativaśyākṛṣṭi nityapragalbhā||

That darling daughter of the mountain Himavaan (Shailakanyaa)

is holding a garland (to be offered to her lover Shambu whom she is eager to marry)

is adorned in dark red ornaments all over her body

is a bounty for the eyes of all eyes that see her and her beauty would steal the hearts of all who think of her

is pleased to bring about the happy union of young men and young women ( or boys and girls ) by encouraging mutual attraction in them (and bringing about their union by way of happy marriage )

is ever efficient in executing what is her will

May She be pleased to fulfil all y(our) fond hopes, desires and expectations

The mangalya sutra

The mangalya sutra.. a cotton thread, smeared with turmeric is supposed to carry the thali.. or the divine insignia which a groom ties to the bride and the bride as wife is expected to wear it as long as the husband lives.. 

In Lalitha Sahasranamam we see that  the Mother Rajarajeshvari, Mahatripurasundari  Lalithambika is shining for with the mangalyasootram tied around her neck by none other than Kamesha..  the Supreme Lord  Sadashiva Himself..
कामेशबद्ध माङ्गल्यसूत्र शोभित कन्धरा 

I read somewhere a remark that manjal kayiru (the cotton thread smeared with turmeric and perhaps tied with a tiny piece of dried turmeric) is a thing of the past and the ladies now wear only golden chains carrying the thaali.. 

But this is not correct.. according to the traditions.. 

My views. 

manjal kayiru should not be removed.. 

if anyone claims that  she is Sumangali . 

The mangalyam is tied to a thanthu.. 

a cotton thread and not gold chain.. 

and this tantu is the jeevana hetu of the one who ties the thread.. 

jeevana hethu means the cause of longevity of the husband and that depends on this thread and mangalyam... 

it is at least believed so... 

as per the following manthram 

maangalyam tantunaa anena mama jeevana hetunaa.. 

kanTe badnaami subhage saneeva (or twam jeeva) sharatam shatam.. 

माङ्गल्यम् तन्तुनानेन मम जीवन हेतुना 

कण्ठे बध्नामि सुभगे त्वम् जीव शरदः शतम् 

māṅgalyam tantunānena mama jīvana hetunā 

kaṇṭhe badhnāmi subhage tvam jīva śaradaḥ śatam 

Meaning.. 

Oh fortunate lady, I am tying this Manglyam made of thread around your neck , This thread represents or is the cause of my longevity.. 

May you live happily for hundred autumns.. 

The thread is smeared with turmeric or manjal because manjal represents Mahalakshmi Herself. 

A thali chain cannot replace a manjal kayiru as per our religion and traditions .. 

If someone is claiming that it does not matter even if mangalyam is not worn.. the possibilities can be many and I have nothing to say.. 

I am just viewing the issue from the angle of traditions and our faith. 

Regards 

K V A

Regarding some marriage rituals...

Regarding some marriage rituals...of tamil iyers..

I am sure Janavasam or whatever it is and Kashi yatra are not part of any vedic ritual. 

Mangalya dharamam is also a loukeeka ritual. it is not a vedic ritual.

In the Nambuthiri marriages it is the father of the bride who ties the thali. 

Thali represents just Mangala devata or Pratisara devata. 

And manalyam tandunaanena etc a much touted thali kattu mantram is not from any veda.

The kanyaka us the property of her fathers kulam and the groom has no authority to touch or even see the girl before the father or the representative of his kulam offers the kannyakadhanam. 

Now photos and videos with the groom and bride in compromising positions are made even at the time of betrothal..

But these are boisterous practices over which it is for society and community to ponder over and decide. 

The role of vadhyar as a professional is just to conduct the vedic and dharmic rituaĺs.

Of course any vadhyar is a part of brahmin community and that way he can express his views

Panigrahanam at any stage after kanyakadhanam would make sense but holding hands at the culmination of kasi yatra which precedes the dhanam is anacharam violative of scriptural provisions. .

The girl child is the most beautiful creation of God

The girl child is the most beautiful creation of God.. 

By being blessed with a girl, we provide a mother to the world.. a mother who is the source of love, prosperity and who symbolizes the eternal continuity of human race.. 

To be able to give a girls hand in marriage is the ultimate fortune.. 

I trust the presence of the father in marriage ceremony and giving her hands is not restricted to Hinduism..

But in Hinduism the idea is sublime..Let us see the marriage mantras of Kanyaadaanam.

कन्यां कनक-सम्पन्नां कनकाभरणैर्युताम्।

दास्यामि विष्णवे तुभ्यंब्रह्मलोकजिगीषया।।1।।

विश्वम्भरः सर्वभूताः साक्षिण्यः सर्वदेवताः।

इमां कन्यां प्रदास्यामि पितॄणांतारणाय च।।2।।

Kanyaam kanakasampannaam kanakaabharanairyutaam

daasyaami vishnave thubhyam brahmslokajigeeshayaa

vishwambharaaH, sarvabhootaaH, saakshinyaH sarvadevataaH

imaam kanyaam pradaasyaami pitruunamm taaranaaya cha.

The groom is respected and treated as Lord Vishnu Himself and the father says," I am giving this nubile child to you Lord Vishnu, She is adorned in Golden jewels, and my desire is that I may attain the realms of Brahma through this act.. The supreme lord who is manifesting himself filling the whole universe, is the witness, all the elements are the witnesses, all the gods are the witnesses, I am giving the hands of this girl unto you, so that the ancestors born in my clan may attain eternal abodes of happiness." 

We believe that the parents and ten generations before them and ten generations after them would attain eternal bliss by this Kanyakaadaanam..

We can believe in it, or we can choose not to believe in it.

devoted conjugal bliss

इहैव स्तं मा  वि यौष्टं
विश्वं आयुर् व्यश्नुतम्।
क्रीळन्तो पुत्रैर् नप्त्रुभिर्
मोदमानो स्वे गृहे
ऋग्वेदं १०-८५-३७
ihaiva staṁ mā  vi yauṣṭaṁ
viśvaṁ āyur vyaśnutam|
krīḻanto putrair naptrubhir
modamāno sve gṛhe
ṛgvedaṁ 10-85-37

This is a very sweet and beautiful mantra of benediction to the newlyweds..found in the Rigvedam.. 
This I remember to have quoted earlier along with a large number of vivaahamanthras and in that process the unique greatness of this simple couplet got omitted to be highlighted.

The married couple  are blessed by the elders that  they should live on this earth perfectly wedded together for long period (for the whole of the lifetime), never should they get separated  either in body or mind, 
 they should live the whole of the life as prescribed in the Vedas, 
and their life should be a saga of fun and frolic, 
enjoying themselves playing with their own sons (children) and grandchildren all living together in a household   which is their own.

The lofty idea of the strong fabric of family forged together is unique for us...first the couple should not separated for a lifetime, and they should live in extreme joy with blessed longevity (implying perfect health.)  
They should be in the happy company of sons and grandsons all living under one roof.
What a beautiful picture...
The primordial Veda is capable of blessing all the people, and being the godhead of eternal truth, such best wishes would be enjoyed naturally by all.

The Indian psyche cannot conceive multiple marriages and flirting in the simple vedic life.
(may be the situation was not exactly same in the later puranic times, where the Kshatriyas would marry as many times as possible...example are Dasaratha and Arjuna and even that god in cowherd form, Krishna) 
 but even in these modern days of nuclear families we can feel the safety and security in the company of a thatha or paatti, appa and ammai, self and wife, brothers and their families, and the sons and daughters.  If one's life is full of step-parents, step grandparents, half-siblings etc..at least even for the contemporary Indians life would look very odd.

--

the unbreakable knot

पूषा त्वेतो नयतु हस्तगृह्य
अश्विना त्वा प्र् वहतां रथेन
गृहान् गच्च गृहपत्नी यथासौ
वशिनी त्वम् विदथं आ वदासि
ऋग् १०-७५-२६
सुमङ्गलीरियं वधू
इमां समेत पश्यत
सौभाग्यम् अस्यै दत्त्वाया
ऽथास्तं वि परेतन    
ऋक् १०-८५-३३  अथ  १४--२--२७
सम्राजी श्वशुरे भव
सम्राजी श्वश्र्वां भव
ननान्दरि सम्राजी भव
सम्राही अधि देवृषु
ऋग् १०-८५-४६  अथ  १४-२-४४
समञ्जन्तु विश्वे देवाह्
सं आपो हृदयानि नौ
सं मातरिश्वा सम् धाता
समुद्रेष्ट्री दधातु नौ
ऋक् १०-८५-४७

दीर्घायुरस्तु मे पतिर् जीवाति शरदः शतम्।
अथ्  १४-२-६३
इहेमाविन्द्र सं नुद चक्रवाकेव दंपती
अथ् १४-२-६४
इहैव स्तम् मा वि यौष्ठं
विश्वं आयुर् व्यश्नुतं
क्रीळन्तो पुत्रैर् नप्तृभिर्
मोदमानौ त्वे गृहे
ऋग्  १०-८५-४२
पुत्रिणा ता कुमारिणा
विश्वं आयुर् व्यश्नुतः
उभा हिरण्यपेशसा
ऋग् ८-३१-८
pūṣā tveto nayatu hastagṛhya
aśvinā tvā pr vahatāṁ rathena
gṛhān gacca gṛhapatnī yathāsau
vaśinī tvam vidathaṁ ā vadāsi
ṛg 10-75-26
sumaṅgalīriyaṁ vadhū
imāṁ sameta paśyata
saubhāgyam asyai dattvāyā
'thāstaṁ vi paretana    
ṛk 10-85-33  atha  14--2--27
samrājī śvaśure bhava
samrājī śvaśrvāṁ bhava
nanāndari samrājī bhava
samrāhī adhi devṛṣu
ṛg 10-85-46  atha  14-2-44
samañjantu viśve devāh
saṁ āpo hṛdayāni nau
saṁ mātariśvā sam dhātā
sanudreṣṭrī dadhatu nau
ṛk 10-85-47
dīrghāyurastu me patir jīvāti śradaḥ śatam|
ath  14-2-63
ihemmamindra saṁ nuda cakravākeva daṁpatī
ath 14-2-64
ihaiva stam mā vi yauṣṭhaṁ
viśvaṁ āyur vyaśnutaṁ
krīḻanto putrair naptṛbhir
modamānau tve gihe
ṛg  10-85-42
putriṇā tā kumāriṇā
viśvaṁ āyur vyasnutaḥ
ubhā hiraṇyapeśsā
ṛg 8-31- 8
One friend had asked me to indicate some important marriage manthras and accordingly I do it. 
 The procedural rituals vary from place to place and I shall try to convey the basic rituals in a different individual message.  The manthras quoted above  are tribute to all ladies who enter the conjugal vow with men..The respect given to the woman in the house as a wife perhaps may not find any parallel in any other culture.  There may be the mother icons everywhere, but the importance as a wife herself is underlined without room for equivocation in the hoary traditions recorded in the Vedas. The uniformity in thought can be gauged from the fact that the manthras get repeated in the most ancient rig veda and the comparatively modern atharva veda.
 The bride is entering the ritualistic location, her hand held by the god puushan (one form of the sun god) the twin gods of medicine the Ashwins are accompanying her in the chariot.. and she is going away from her house to that of her husband and she is blessed that she may become the ruler of the household and the main spokesperson of the assembly in her husbands place.

The nubile bride who has become sumangalii is introduced to all. 'This bride has attained the status of a wife..she is bringing fortune to this house..come all of you and look at her...Please wish her full happiness before you return home'.
The bride is blessed to join the supreme place in the household " May your father in law treat you with affection as if you were a queen.  May your mother in law treat treat you with love as if you were a queen.  May your sisters in law love and respect you as if you were a queen. May your brothers in law repect and adore you as if you were a queen"

The husband prays for conjugal unity  " May all Gods and all waters unite our hearts.  Especially the gods Mathariswa, dhaata, and dheshtri, make us very close.
The bride prays to the gods and elders " May my husband live long, and we will live together for hundred years...bless us"
The elders pray for the couple " Join the couple here, Indra... they resemble the chakravaka and its mate. ( The chakravaka is a symbol for mutual devotion of the couple. if one loses its life, the mate will die in grief.)
The lifelong union of the ideal couple as expressed by elders in their blessing "May you two dwell in this house, never parted, you enjoy the full life span as prescribed by vedas, may you have the fotune to play together with your sons and grandsons,"
The prayer of the couple "With sons and daughters abounding, may we live long adorned in rich dresses an precious ornaments".

--

i hold thy hand

गृह्णामि त्वाम् सौभगत्वाय हस्तं
मया पत्या जरदष्ठिर् यथासः।
भगो अर्यमा सविता पुरन्दिर्
मह्यम् त्वादुर् गार्हपत्याय देवाः।
ऋग्वेदं १०-८५-३६  अथर्वणवेदं १४-१-५०
gṛhṇāmi tvām saubhagatvāya hastaṁ
mayā patyā jaradaṣṭhir yathāsaḥ|
bhago aryamā savitā purandir
mahyam tvādur gārhapatyāya devāḥ|
ṛgvedaṁ 10-85-36  atharvaṇavedaṁ 14-1-50

gruhnami twaam saubhagatvaaya hastham
mayaa patyaa jaradhashtir yadasah
bhago aryamaa savitaa purandir
mahyam twaadur gaarhpatyaaya devaah

I take your hand in mine for good fortune with the prayer that you also will grow  old along with me, your husband.
Deities bhaga, aryamaaa savitha and purandhi have given you to me to be the mistress of my house.
This paanigrahana mantram has united couples of India for thousand of years.  The word garhapathyam implies that the good wife becomes the real leading spirit of the household taking the husband to her protection and affection. There is another aaseervadahmanthram in vedas, दशास्याम् पुत्राणम् अन्ते पतिमेकादशम् कृधि daśāsyām putrāṇam ante patimekādaśam kṛdhi, you beget ten sons and make your husband the eleventh son..  the position given to woman as a wife in our cuture was indeed very exalted

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